Love is such an unexplainable thing, isn’t it? Sometimes it’s coming straight at you. Other times, it comes from a different angle, unexpected and only makes its case steadily — from a distance. How else, can I explain my love for the work of Sophie and Peter Johnston and their own stab at creating their (quite sophisticated) pop masterpiece: 1987’s aptly titled Sophie And Peter Johnston. And on this very special occasion, Peter was kind enough to answer more than a few questions about his work and that special time in his life.
First off, I must confess, I wasn’t sold on this album the first time it came calling. You see, one day, fellow FOND/SOUND reader, and prolific gifted illustrator/concept artist, Sally (@lirthel), reached out to me and shared a song I just had to listen to. I know myself and have fielded enough “recommendations” to instinctively click on something with more than a bit of grumbling, nonplussed feeling. But this was different. On Twitter I was just floored with what she shared: it was the eponymous duo’s “A Bigger Temptation”.
Listening to “A Bigger Temptation” I was reminded of the BIG pop songs of the past that simply carved out whatever sonic space they were played in. You’ve heard the names: Prefab Sprout, Scritti Politti, Tears For Fears, and Pet Shop Boys, et al. and more, all of them have songs featuring huge production coupled to even bigger/hookier emotive lyricism. I wondered: this duo looked young enough to have gone places but did they?
As I managed to grab a copy of Sophie And Peter Johnston, and equally discover (and fall in love with) a collection of tunes of likely English pop classics, I proceeded to discover that, as I surmised, these songs were in the end “should of/could have been” hits. Somehow, I was befuddled that they were lost to time and the machinations of the music industry.
Looking at YouTube videos of the duo performing on English TV, or miming their way through backtracks on music videos, all I could keep thinking was: “How come and why not?!” this music was special. In touch with everything that it means to be an adolescent growing up, this album struck me as something others would find some solace with. I could understand why John Peel loved them then.
That’s when I decided I’d do everything I can to reach out to Peter to fill in the details I couldn’t. This is where our interview picks it all up…
F/S: Can you share with us where you’re both from?
Peter Johnston: We are from the eternal energy life force, the hidden realm, and also from Newcastle upon Tyne in the north east of England. 🙂
F/S: How did you get into making music, yourself?
Peter Johnston: Well, my (our) parents were both musical. My dad was our local church’s organist and they both sang in various choirs and played instruments at home. I played and self-taught myself in classical guitar through my teenage years. I then had the opportunity to crossover to synthesisers, and so forth, in the early eighties, by borrowing, and then buying, a couple of basic synths from a school friend.
F/S: When did Sophie enter into the mix? How involved was she from the beginning?
Peter Johnston: Well, she was my kid sister and I tried her out for vocals on a studio demo. And she seemed to have something. We were kind of on the same wavelength, although she was more into disco and funk, and I was a rock music aficionado.
F/S: Did you ever entertain the thought about working with someone else, perhaps as a solo artist? Was there ever a period you struck out elsewhere with another group?
Peter Johnston: Well, I’ve been involved with quite a lot of musical collaborations with various other singers apart from my sis over the years. All fairly low-key pop projects. One of which was some tunes I wrote and recorded in the mid 90’s with a vocalist called Beccy Byrne (then Beccy Warne-Holland) who later sang backing vocals on Noel Gallagher‘s High Flying Birds debut album.
I also made several solo albums either with me singing or as collections of instrumental tunes. My younger brother, Tim Johnston (a professional drummer and music teacher), helped me out playing drums on some self-penned songs.
F/S: As siblings were you listening to the same kind of music growing up?
Peter Johnston: Ah, well, as said in the previous answer we were on mostly different musical taste paths although we both liked some stuff in common. Led Zeppelin and Judie Tzuke spring to mind…
F/S: Artistically and aesthetically, what were you into then?
Peter Johnston: Sophie was into things like Japan (the band), Duran Duran, Funkadelic, A Certain Ratio, and I came from a background in ‘70s rock, and the Beatles and some punk, New Wave and electronic music. I loved the Human League and Kraftwerk.
F/S: Did you feel a sense of debt, of a sort, to any musical scene or were you kind of on a musical island to yourselves when you initially started as a group? I can’t remember any other band from Newcastle (other than the admirable institution of the Pet Shop Boys and Prefab Sprout) generating the same kind of music then.
Peter Johnston: Sophie and I both had, I guess, fairly eclectic tastes and influences in music generally. Our parents took us to operas (in the super cheap seats right at the top at the theatre where a sense of vertigo was common!) and some classical concerts as kids (Peter and the Wolf, etc.). Plus there was a lot of church choral music played in the house and so on. I can’t really speak for Sophie, but I don’t think we felt part of any musical scene in Newcastle.
I mean we knew about bands like Lindisfarne and The Animals, historically, and we both liked The Police (Sting went to my old Catholic boy’s grammar school as did Neil Tennant at Saint Cuthbert’s) but I think we looked further afield than our hometown for our main influences. Sophie was into bands like Japan, Spandau Ballet, Duran Duran, amongst others at that time and I dug Kraftwerk, the Human League, Depeche Mode, Yazoo, Ultravox (to some extent), Landscape and, yes indeed, The Pet Shop Boys, as well as others from the electropop (if you can call it that) genre of the time.
I’m not sure we consciously set out to create our own voice, or style, as it were, but I certainly drew little bits of influence or key motifs from all kinds of records and bands that I liked and not just in the synthpop vein. I basically copied certain ideas, riffs, rhythms and sounds that I thought were really cool and then tried to disguise them by mixing them around, modifying them and adding our own flavour of sparkly “tinsel” arpeggios, overlaying sad chords, and so on.
I was very aware that a lot of synthpop sounded (in my opinion) a little bit ‘cold’ and mechanical and wanted to make our stuff more poppy and light, as well as having a kind of simultaneously happy and sad vibe, if that makes sense. I knew we were doing (or attempting) a delicate balancing act between twee, lightweight pop froth on the one hand and expansive, emotive, exciting, tuneful stuff on the other.
F/S: How old were you both when you recorded your first single “Losing You” in 1985?
Peter Johnston: I would’ve been 26 and Sophie, I guess, around 20/21.
F/S: How were you discovered and/or signed by WEA? It seems you already had the great ears of John Peel behind you and a few sessions on tape with him a few years earlier.
Peter Johnston: Oh man… That’s a tale and a half in itself. In a nutshell: several record companies were keen to sign us after Peel Session 1 in Feb. 1983, but we had already, foolishly, signed to a small label who shelved us some months earlier. It took a while to extricate ourselves from that contract and then sign to Chrysalis, with whom we made little progress – no releases – in spite of an enthusiastic A&R man.
Released from that label we then made our own single ‘Losing You’ recorded at my flat on a Fostex A8 tape machine. The WEA thing came via a guy called Pete Winkelman who had worked for Bronze Records and left to set up his own independent label I-Major. He signed us and then did a secondary/production deal with WEA. Phew!
F/S: Did you have a good idea of what kind of music you wanted to release with them?
Peter Johnston: Sure did! Gorgeous, hooky, elevating (all, hopefully!), and exhilarating, melodic, happy/sad, succinct 3 to 4 minute synth pop pieces.
F/S: Not to plug my own show, but other than my blog, I host a radio show on French-based LYL Radio that focuses on themes sometimes. Recently, I created an episode dedicated to big-hearted, electro-pop music that touches on those very universal feelings felt through the life of a school-going teenager. Your “A Bigger Temptation”, I felt, just had to kick it off.
Was the audience you were writing for decidedly a younger one in mind or was all this music a reflection of something else — perhaps, yours/Sophie’s own thoughts/feelings?
Peter Johnston: Well, regarding “A Bigger Temptation”, that was kind of autobiographical from my personal point of view. I didn’t have a very happy secondary school experience, and partly as a result of that, I questioned the expected path of school, college/university, job/career.
I think adversity and/or personal trauma can lead one to dream ‘outside the box’ and give rise to a sort of steely inner determination to set one’s goal super high, especially towards something which makes your choked spirit sing again. So, yes, as is so often the case, a lyric written from personal experience aims also to hopefully resonate with other like-minded souls and to encourage them not to be afraid to go against the grain and follow their dream. Echoing the spirit, in a sense, of Eddie and the Hot Rods “Do Anything You Wanna Do” which was always a favourite of mine.
F/S: Can you explain some of the behind the scenes on the making of 1987’s Sophie And Peter Johnston? Any favorite songs?
Peter Johnston: Behind the scenes…hmmm…oh my goodness. Where to start? Ok, a few things…
It was recorded at me and my girlfriend’s flat in Kennington, London. We had a nice mixing desk and (now) old fashioned 24 track analogue tape machine in a spare room and pretty much did it all there. Sophie was living in Cambridge at the time and would travel down on the train to put down some singing on the songs. My favourite song on that album would maybe be ‘Open Up’, an anti-Margaret Thatcher (British prime minister at the time) tune.
F/S: Was recording at home a conscious decision made by you or the group?
Peter Johnston: Yes, recording at home was a conscious and deliberate decision. I felt, rather presumptuously, arrogantly, perhaps (ah, the naked idealism of youth!), that I could achieve the sound we wanted and have more creative control over the music by doing it at home which was, at the time, a flat in London that I was sharing with my then-girlfriend.
Whereas today, recording on a laptop at home is far more of a viable proposition, back then it was deemed sacrilege by most music industry boffins! But I was stubborn and had a strong, even dogged, belief in my/our musical vision. Also it was way more exciting and adventurous than working in the time-pressured, expensive, and often formal, and conventional environment, of an “established” studio.
F/S: The production on that album still sounds amazing — “Happy Together” and “A Bigger Temptation” are some of my favorites. How involved were you in the production?
Peter Johnston: “Happy Together” and “A Bigger Temptation”? Well, I guess totally involved. I wrote, recorded, and produced, both at the aforementioned ‘bedroom studio’ in a flat London. From the only window in that wonky floored room could be seen the Houses of Parliament about half a mile away.
Thank you for your kind words re: “the production”. I was a keen enthusiast of attempting to make a beautiful noise!
F/S: Can you share information on some of the synths or instruments you used on it?
Peter Johnston: Oh, yeah, sure. If I can remember. They (the keyboards and gear) changed a lot and quickly in that early ‘80s era! I think the sequencing was done on a Roland MSQ700 and the synths included a PPG Wave 2.2 and a Roland Juno module. Some of the main components of the sound processing were a Lexicon PCM-70 reverb and an Eventide H910 harmoniser. And Roland digital delays with modulation. These, coupled with the synths (and a group vision!), were key elements in the sound.
F/S: What kind of freedom (if any) did you get from the record label? Were there any expectations from them?
Peter Johnston: Well, that’s an interesting question. I was (possibly/overly) mistrustful of record companies at this point after our previous experiences and one of the conditions of us signing with I-Major (through whom we were affiliated to WEA), stipulated by me, was that we wanted total artistic freedom.
F/S: How was the promotion like for this album?
Peter Johnston: Fairly non existent, I would say. They had to release it due to contractual obligations but because the singles didn’t chart I think they didn’t want to “throw good money after bad” as they might’ve seen it.
F/S: What was the reception like for it?
Peter Johnston: Well, it got 4/5 in Q magazine. I guess some critics liked it, but it never fully engaged with the wider public.
F/S: Other than your work with Pauline Murray, can you explain the hiatus ending with 2007’s Sophie And Peter Johnston?
Peter Johnston: Yes. Sophie went to the USA. But before that we made some new tunes under the name of ‘The Secret Garden’ and did some gigs. After she left, I got on with other musical projects.
F/S: What brought you two back together?
Peter Johnston: Well, she was back in the UK, in London (I was and still am living in Newcastle), and I travelled to her daughter’s christening ceremony at which Sophie sang, and I thought her voice still sounded sweet and good. That was what prompted the 2007 recording.
F/S: The 2007 return sounds like it just picked off where the 1987 album ended. Stylistically, was this a conscious choice on your part?
Peter Johnston: Yes, it was. Though, this time utilising software synths and recording it into a laptop.
F/S: What happened after this?
Peter Johnston: We played a couple of promotional gigs. I don’t know to be honest. Perhaps a manager would’ve helped. I think we were flawed from the off to be honest. To be fair, neither of us was that keen on becoming “successful” in the ‘pop’ world, and all that would seem to entail.
F/S: Can you explain your work as AD-60?
Peter Johnston: I got into synthwave/retrowave type music a year or two ago (bands like The Midnight) and wrote some tunes in that genre under the pseudonym of AD-60.
F/S: This feels like Alice looking through the looking glass. How do you feel about the rise of these genres, when a lot of your earlier work seems to provide a kind of blueprint for it?
Peter Johnston: That’s very kind of you to say so, Diego, but to be fair we rode on the back of many other preceding artists, offered our two pennyworth’s, and if that in any way inspired others, then so be it. I guess, it’s only in the nature of the collective quality of shared artistic and musical ideas and trends that people will draw on whatever sources, past or present, inspire them .
F/S: Where do you go from here?
Peter Johnston: I’m currently writing and recording some new instrumental pieces at home during this pandemic era under the working title of ‘Taiwan Express’. I’m aiming to have an album of that music finished by early, next year.
F/S: Do you feel Sophie would like to come along for the musical ride any time soon? Or is your work as a duo now in the rear view mirror?
Peter Johnston: Well, the door is never closed metaphorically speaking from my point of view. It’s certainly not out of the question that we could record some more music together. In fact I quite like the idea of it.
My current musical project is under the name of ‘Taiwan Express’ of which there is one EP out called ‘Denizens of Hidden Realms’ with another called ‘Lines in the Sky’ to follow soon.
Sophie currently lives (as she has done for the last 7 or 8 years) in the Cayman Islands, where she is a school teacher. Although, I believe she may move back to the UK at some point in the next few years.